Up and running - what now?

Ideas šŸ’”
#1

OK, so Zevvle is up and running - now what?

The network is piggybacked onto EE. It is fast and the coverage is probably more than the other networks. Generally, EE shows the most promise in the future.

The app and signing up is painless and generally does everything that I would want.

The elephant in the room of course is the cost. There are plenty of cheaper PAYG alternatives that use EE.

Having said that Zevvle has advantages for low users particularly if 5 sims can be activated for Ā£5 per month. I was thinking of elderly people who donā€™t actually use a mobile phone but see its advantages on holiday or in hospital say. The line is kept alive regardless of use if the subscription is paid and can be topped up by an overseeing relative/friend when it is needed. Similarly for children with the added controls of data and SMS/MMS management. It will be useful for emergency/glovebox phones. The unique use in most of these cases is keeping the number alive purely by paying a subscription.

For the future Nick USPs to consider:

Unlimited minutes and texts included with the subscription.
Roaming in the UK
Decent overseas use prices
4G/Wifi calling

3 Likes
#2

Thank you for the thoughts :slight_smile:

What do you mean by this one? Using another networkā€™s coverage, orā€¦?

What would be good for you?

The network is 4G already, but WiFi calling is a bit more involved (i.e., we canā€™t do it on our larry), so difficult to put a timeframe on that one.

#3

Yes if EE signal wasnā€™t available the sim would use O2 say - usually only available to non domestic sims

Same as locals pay

I mean using 4G to actually make the call. At the moment EE restrict that to themselves and BT.

2 Likes
#4

For 4G calling this would be very similar to WiFi Calling, you canā€™t provide one without the other (they use the same technologies under the hood, only the ā€œlast mileā€ changes, sending the data over 4G instead of WiFi) and unfortunately EE (or the enabler) doesnā€™t look like theyā€™re willing to make any progress on that.

1 Like
#5

Actually thatā€™s not true at all, in the domestic market Three are the best placed to hit the ground running via their upcoming 5G network roll out. They are the only UK network that has the bands required that match the international agreed standards for 5G.

#6

For roaming, Iā€™d be happy to pay a small premium on what locals are paying for their data/calls/texts.

#7

One of the big USPs is the ability to do family sims. Having a model where the kids usage can be tracked, but the parents selectively choose what they show each other in terms of usage and topup/balance. Iā€™m thinking about issues around domestic abuse and preventing that from being an issue. Numbers like Childline and potentially others should not show in the logs. Itā€™s part of their confidentiality promise:

Calls are not recorded and your number wonā€™t show up on any phone bills.

https://www.childline.org.uk/about/confidentiality-promise/

O2 at one point (around 8 years ago) had a bolt on that would give anyone in a group unlimited calls to each other but other than that the accounts were kept separate.

Iā€™d be interested in a number of minutes/text being included in the Ā£5 per month, a few hundred of each would cover me most months, and would make Zevvle more competitive.

Are Zevvle <-> Zevvle calls cheaper at the wholesale rate? If so it could be a promotional angle.

1 Like
#8

This is an important point ā€“ should any call logs show?

Watch this space! :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#9

Iā€™m not interested in the call logs for my wife, however depending on the age of my children will determine whether Iā€™d want to see the logs. One is 3.5 years old, the other not yet born, so itā€™ll be several years until theyā€™ll be getting a phone of their own (though the 3 year old is asking for one). Certainly from mid-teens onwards they should be old enough and be able to have their own privacy and trust. Itā€™s the pre- or early-teens where Iā€™m still unsure as to when itā€™s a good point to give them a phone of their own, and how much monitoring of it is required. Granted with all the voip and chat services it would become basically impossible, as Iā€™d need access to those too.

All the complications of being a parent.

4 Likes
#10

Call logs should IMO only be shown to the actual user of the SIM. Anything else is just creating a liability.

You might think itā€™s not a big deal as every carrier allows to check bills already but keep in mind that none of them (that I know of) offer this in near real-time, so Zevvle would be the first.

Reminds me of stories where domestic abuse victims would be abused by smart devices controlled by the attacker, and I guess the main reason is that most people donā€™t realise the potential of these devices to do harm when they let them be installed. Thereā€™s possible potential for stalking here if someone malicious is allowed to see call/text logs in real time.

4 Likes
#11

I would like to see the Logs for all the SIMs personally although a few of mine will be used in Data only devices.

I know a few people who Iā€™m going to recommend who are parents of younger children and the whole reason would be so that can monitor usage and spending which other services donā€™t provide them.

Zevvle along with the likes of Go Henry I feel would be a great balance between giving kids independence and freedom but still having that oversight from a parent/guardian.

I can see the user of the SIM having access being a pain because that means handling multiple logins for the same ā€˜accountā€™ being an extra overhead and also for my SIMs particularly the Data ones, I donā€™t want to have to logout and back into loads of separate Accounts to manage them. That defeats the whole point to me. Itā€™s back to the days of my separate Three contracts for different devices for which I now begrudgingly pay EE a ton of money just so I can manage my account separately.

But I can also see @Rjevskiā€™s POV also. Striking that balance will be difficult. Maybe a permission should be granted first or something.

3 Likes
#12

Weā€™ve actually built everything with this in mind, as there are 3 data models ā€“ accounts, users and SIMs. Accounts can have many users, users can have many sims, and you login as a user, not an account, making the multi-login a non-issue. During signup/ordering multiple SIMs, youā€™ll select whether the SIM is for you or someone else, and weā€™ll create a new user accordingly with login details.

So far, these are a given:

  • As an account owner (multiple will be possible, e.g. a spouse or business partner), youā€™ll be able to set limits and see the total usage for every SIM, including call time, data used, texts sent, etc. As the one paying, this makes sense.
  • For your own SIMs (i.e., the ones linked directly to you, but not other users), youā€™ll be able to see all the usage, just like you can at the moment.

Whatā€™s more of a grey-area are the in-between statesā€¦

Thereā€™s that; we certainly donā€™t want to create a tool for abuse.

This could work; user A (an account owner) creating a separate login for user B who can grant permission for user A to see more of their usage history.

4 Likes
#13

Wow, clearly a lot of thought has been out into this already. Good that this is been thought of from the group up!

I think for most use cases, what youā€™re already thinking of implementing will be absolutely fine with maybe just a little something extra for the child scenario. Maybe putting their DoB in so it changes automatically or having a child toggle that is confirmed on their phone or something.

3 Likes
#14

If an abuser wanted to see a victims call logs they would make them use a company that lets them see it, so I donā€™t see it as a reason for zevvle to disable the feature.

Or make it that the sim user can opt out via USSD code or similar, and it canā€™t be re enabled in app , maybe that extra friction could help someone in a domestic abuse situation.

#15

I wonder if this gives enough separation for strangers to share the five SIMs.

Itā€™s popular on bunq, for example, to share a subscription (the bunq pack) to bring down the cost and save by sharing the extras you donā€™t need.

3 Likes
#16

Would it be a big deal? 5Ā£ isnā€™t a big amount (neither for the user to gain, nor for Zevvle to lose) so the incentives for the user are minimal (the hassle of doing this wonā€™t be worth it for most people) and the impact on Zevvle should also be minimal even if a few people do it.

#17

Ā£5 not a big deal? Try saying that to my dad who avoids any subscriptions and paying for anything. When it comes to mobile he just does the couple of calls or texts on his work phone and avoids having a personal one for a fear of the data gobbling up all his credit.

Heā€™s someone who passed his exams with top marks first time but doesnā€™t see the point of interest in savings, went through several decades with virtually no money, and having read a few stories of people being charged huge amounts for going over the data allowance or using a phone abroad would rather just leave the phone turned off or not have one. Itā€™d be like Iā€™m paying Ā£5 for nothing, whereas if itā€™s spilt between the family then it becomes a more reasonable charge along with the better reporting of usage meaning that he might just consider a phone. Though 3ā€™s PAYG tariff which was a similar price didnā€™t go down too well partly due to having almost no signal where he lives.

I suspect there will be a significant proportion of the population who are on the lower income scale who would very much baulk at the Ā£5 per month free. Though it might actually be cheaper than some of the other PAYG tariffs depending on usage.

1 Like
#18

It is enough for me to have a single monthā€™s acquaintance with Zevvle if I am not going to get anything for it such as multiple SIMs or included minutes.

#19

Nick, Iā€™m just sourcing another iPhone in order to activate the Zevvle SIM to try it out.

Is there a provision in the app to print off monthly statements (to claim cost back through business of using it as my business phone)

How long, do you anticipate,until multi-SIM on one account?

Many thanks.

1 Like
#20

Not yet, when do you need one by? We can do it manually until itā€™s automated. :slight_smile:

Weā€™ve had a lot of feedback in the last 9 days and weā€™re going to do this one a lot sooner than planned; no public date yet but itā€™s in progress!

5 Likes